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Originally posted by Walshicus:It's just more of the same. You've already played it, back when it was called Burnout 3.ETA: And the Xbox S-Controller is still the only serious way to control the game.saying that proves you didnt actually play it, but just read reviews.i was a HUGE B3 fan, and i'm still learning to love Revenge, it makes more than subtle changes to the game dynamic, especially in crash mode, which i liked A LOT better in B3 so far.from the test i've run with friends who dont play either a lot, they seem to think theyre very similar, but if you played 3 to no end, you definately feel/see a difference. B4 is not at all like B3 and is definitely NOT more of the same.At the moment, I can't decide if I like the changes or not. The traffic attack mode has been the biggest disappointment so far. There's absolutely zero skill involved, all you do is drive through the traffic in a line. It gets old real fast.I also don't like how same direction traffic is no longer a threat in all the other modes too.

It just doesn't make sense that I can hit a car going about three times faster than it and the worst I suffer is a small slow down. The civilian car meanwhile goes careening down the road like it's made of plastic.

And the whole idea of making a blockade of rolling traffic to block people behind you doesn't seem to work. The other cars just plow through them. That aspect of the game pretty much sucks.The new tracks on the other hand are great.

The multi-level, multi-route, heavily populated with junk courses are sooo much more fun than B3 tracks. The bug jumps are fun as are the bumpy ground where you fly all over the shop.However, there is one thing that is really souring me on B4. The cpu cars are pathetic. They are weak as piss. You can knock them off the road by giving them a stern look. There's no satisfaction at all in taking them out. And when they do go, it's not crunchy like in B3.

Now it's just a weak roll or occasionally a hit into a dead end wall. Where's the destruction? Where's the gringing them against the walls? Where's the carefully times smash into their backwheels with a satisfying crunch?Where's the masses of metal and wheels flying away while the car crumples into nothing? This is really a bone of contention for me - they have completely undermined the massive destruction of B3.I'm also not a fan of the new car selections. I definitely preferred the groups of cars in B3 (such as sports, super, muscle etc). All the cars in B4 feel the same, look the same and generally offer little difference to play.

Hopefully that'll change as I unlock some of the later cars. Right now they are generic sports car 1, generic sports car 2, generic sports car 2, etc.I haven't had a chance to play multiplayer B4 yet, but from what I've seen of the singleplayer games, I'm not hopeful - View image here: -B4 just feels like it should have been something more.

The gameplay in B3 was so close to perfect, I don't know why they had to change it so much. I guess they figure, if it ain't broke, fuck with it till it is.It's still a fun game, but not the same level of digital crack that B3 was. Originally posted by Walshicus:It's just more of the same. Personally, I say if you don't have any burnout - get B3. It all depends what you like.B3 is more about trashing each other and real intense fights along the streets. B3's road rage mode is head and shoulders above B4.B4 is a 'lite' version, but has better racing and crash modes.

B4 is a bit annoying at times - it has clearly been EAified.As B3 is probably pretty cheap now, you can't go wrong with it - it's a fantastic game.And it's maximum 2 players on one tv. I don't think you can console link, so only Live can do more than 2. Originally posted by Dave88:PS2 version of Burnout might have system link, but I don't think the xbox version does. Don't see why it should be obligatory to provide it though. It's not the same as providing LAN support on a PC game.It pretty much is. A lot of people, as Walshicus said, don't have xbox live, plus sometimes face to face is just better.

And its easier to get non-gamers to play on a xbox LAN. Any MP Xbox game should support System Link, end of story. Failure to do so is just laziness.

I never said System link wasn't a good thing, only that it's not really a requirement for MP games anymore. Microsoft would rather the devs used Live over system link and quite often provide a financial bonus to the devs willing to do so. The devs don't mind so much as they see broadband as the future of online gaming for consoles anyway.And just as a lot of people don't have live, a lot of people also don't have a second tv or the willingness to drag their own tv to a friends house. There really is a dwindling need for devs to produce system link games. My bet would be that the next gen games have virtually no system link games, if any at all.

It's more than just a five second job. Not only will it be a different library for each console, but no doubt the difference in communication speed would need to be catered for. I'm sure the live code and the system link code have sufficient differences to require some recoding of the multiplayer game. Then you have to add in the game modes themselves, including the artwork and menus.

Compared to most tasks in game development, it is a very minor addition, but when you've just been acquired by EA and they are telling you that your title is going gold on such and such date no matter how incomplete it is, then every little bit of time counts. I imagine this is also the reason why Criterion didn't add in a single-event single-player mode like they had in B3. It's not much work, but EA give very inflexible deadlines. Originally posted by Dave88:I never said System link wasn't a good thing, only that it's not really a requirement for MP games anymore. Microsoft would rather the devs used Live over system link and quite often provide a financial bonus to the devs willing to do so.

The devs don't mind so much as they see broadband as the future of online gaming for consoles anyway.And just as a lot of people don't have live, a lot of people also don't have a second tv or the willingness to drag their own tv to a friends house. There really is a dwindling need for devs to produce system link games. My bet would be that the next gen games have virtually no system link games, if any at all.How many houses truly don't have a second TV? Don't answer with anything but 'a minority' because that is what the stats are. Not only do nation wide stats agree with me, but pretty much every single person I've ever visited in my peer group has at least two TVs.

Not to mention if you are going to do a LAN, it is still 10x easier to bring 1 TV than 4 monitors.Now, while I can see system link not being huge among a large amount of players who are just too casual to bother, but Halo 2 system link is a LAN party for non-geeks, and is amazingly popular. That, and many hardcore gamers will almost completely abandon the Xbox for LANs as well. Lacking a system link, there ceases to be any legitimate reason at all to play Xbox when among computer gaming friends. Now, while I can see system link not being huge among a large amount of players who are just too casual to bother, but Halo 2 system link is a LAN party for non-geeks, and is amazingly popular.

That, and many hardcore gamers will almost completely abandon the Xbox for LANs as well. Lacking a system link, there ceases to be any legitimate reason at all to play Xbox when among computer gaming friends.I can't really fathom what you're getting at here. You seem to be implying the only reason hardcore gamers would want to play on an xbox is if it has system link? That doesn't make sense, so I'm going to assume you meant something else, but I have no idea what.And regardless of how important you find system link, the majority of game developers disagree. Seeing as it's their business to read the markets and make games that appeal to the widest audience, they must think you're in the minority. Originally posted by Dave88:It's not a matter of how many households have a second tv, but rather how many have a second tv suitable for playing split screen on.

But if you want to get anecdoatal about it, I know loads of people that love gaming but only own one tv. Hell, my second tv isn't even good enough to play single player games on it. And nobody other than you is talking about dragging monitors around - that's the realm of the hardcore gamer crowd, not really the type of person consoles are aimed at.Granted, but dragging a TV around isn't that hard, and plenty of people not willing to do a LAN thing will show up to play Xbox.

You can put 4 people on one TV, after all. And FWIW, my ancedotal experience is primarily based on families with young males, often multiple children, and college students. For example, our apartment has 3 TVs (not counting 2 capture cards). Yeah, but they could be wrong. That, and frankly I think there ought to be standard features on every game, varying by system, and not including them is just laziness. I wish Microsoft was more concerned with quality than Live profits and agreed with me.Yeah they could be wrong, but it wouldn't matter if they were. They make the games, so if all the top rated games lack systen link, then the feature will die out.

And I think the fact that the 360 is going to have a free version of Live would suggest that MS have a vested interest in gaming quality over profits. Obviously this is because quality = sales = profit = another wing on billy gates mansion.Online play is the future. Get used to it. Personlly I prefer online over system link any day. Sure you're not in the same room, but you can't beat having the entire screen to yourself while playing against 16+ human opponents. Okay, 7 opponents in Burnout, but I expect the next gen is going to see a massive rise in the number of opponents in play at once.

Yeah, but they could be wrong. That, and frankly I think there ought to be standard features on every game, varying by system, and not including them is just laziness. I wish Microsoft was more concerned with quality than Live profits and agreed with me.Yeah they could be wrong, but it wouldn't matter if they were.

They make the games, so if all the top rated games lack systen link, then the feature will die out. And I think the fact that the 360 is going to have a free version of Live would suggest that MS have a vested interest in gaming quality over profits. Obviously this is because quality = sales = profit = another wing on billy gates mansion.Perhaps they see the free Live as something intended to sell Xbox 360s, Live Gold subscriptions, or both? Besides, quality = sales = profit is fundamentally wrong. Isn't it possible to design a product with such higher quality to be unaffordable to most, therefore resulting in lower profit? Online play is the future.

Get used to it. Personlly I prefer online over system link any day. Sure you're not in the same room, but you can't beat having the entire screen to yourself while playing against 16+ human opponents. Okay, 7 opponents in Burnout, but I expect the next gen is going to see a massive rise in the number of opponents in play at once.I guess if hanging out with friends physically isn't very possible.

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It seems quite likely after college when we all get jobs in the four corners, Live will be a better choice for me as well. But I think its rather insane to choose seperation over human contact if the two are significantly differant in the difficulty to achieve. Besides, system link doesn't have lag, or outages, or shit like that. Originally posted by Dave88:And regardless of how important you find system link, the majority of game developers disagree.

Seeing as it's their business to read the markets and make games that appeal to the widest audience, they must think you're in the minority.Well, the majority of the really good developers aren't discounting it just yet. Bungie recognised that System Link was integral to Halo's success, and Ubisoft still support it in their Ghost Recon games.If that's their attitude though, it's kind of self harming. I was brought into the Microsoft and Bungie fold after playing a 2-Xbox 8-player Halo LAN at a friend's house; as were a good number of others. It's far easier to buy a game, and an entire system, if you have the option of playing it with your friends before you buy it. If that's their attitude though, it's kind of self harming. I was brought into the Microsoft and Bungie fold after playing a 2-Xbox 8-player Halo LAN at a friend's house; as were a good number of others.

It's far easier to buy a game, and an entire system, if you have the option of playing it with your friends before you buy it.I can see what you're saying, but it's more of a personal experience thing over a market thing. Sure you were brought into the fold that way, but most poeple weren't. Only a small percentage of console owners make the effort to have xbox lan parties, and only a small percentage of those involved won't have a console of their own, and as such would be brought into the fold.It's just as likely that someone could be brought into the fold playing splitscreen games on one console or playing MP games on Live. Hell, I was brought into the xbox fold after playing an SP game of Ninja Gaiden. It's the games themselves that do the majority of the selling, not the system link or Live features. I can see what you're saying, but it's more of a personal experience thing over a market thing.

Sure you were brought into the fold that way, but most poeple weren't. Only a small percentage of console owners make the effort to have xbox lan parties, and only a small percentage of those involved won't have a console of their own, and as such would be brought into the fold.It's just as likely that someone could be brought into the fold playing splitscreen games on one console or playing MP games on Live.

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Hell, I was brought into the xbox fold after playing an SP game of Ninja Gaiden. It's the games themselves that do the majority of the selling, not the system link or Live features.I think it contributes to a non-insignificant market share. And for those on the edge between various consoles, the LAN ability is pretty nice.

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And it helps get non-gamers involved too, who might never buy a system themselves, but the ability to more easily incorporate non-gaming friends than say, PC gaming, is a bonus for the gamers themselves. Of course, the learning curve on Halo is wicked for non-gamers compared to a lot of stuff, but hey, free assassination trophies.